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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any suggestions on what I should do to get my sx to turn in better? I was thinking of adding more caster? Where are you guys setting camber and tow? Any advice would be great. Looking to improve low speed turning. Thanks
 

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Stock setup is to "flat"

Dial in 19mm offset camber: I Use a large steel square on the shop floor and dial in 19mm offset top rim lip relative to the bottom rim lip this is around 3.5 - 4 degrees. The heims will be just about full in, maybe one - 1 1/2 turns of thread still showing. You need to check rear tire pressure or use a set of bare rims on the back and check your shop floor is relatively flat.

I move forward the stub axle inclination - caster - by one full turn out of the rear heim on the top a arms this pushes the top of the stub axle forward which reduces castor - speeds up the steering.

Toe in: get someone to stand on the front end and get the tie rod horizontal, set toe to zero to maybe 3 - 5mm toe in at this point, no more.

You'll see a big difference, stock they push / under steer.

getting the stock ride height down with a set off Rons shocks / springs also helps.

dial away !!
 

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Stock setup is to "flat"

Dial in 19mm offset camber: I Use a large steel square on the shop floor and dial in 19mm offset top rim lip relative to the bottom rim lip this is around 3.5 - 4 degrees. The heims will be just about full in, maybe one - 1 1/2 turns of thread still showing. You need to check rear tire pressure or use a set of bare rims on the back and check your shop floor is relatively flat.

I move forward the stub axle inclination - caster - by one full turn out of the rear heim on the top a arms this pushes the top of the stub axle forward which reduces castor - speeds up the steering.

Toe in: get someone to stand on the front end and get the tie rod horizontal, set toe to zero to maybe 3 - 5mm toe in at this point, no more.

You'll see a big difference, stock they push / under steer.

getting the stock ride height down with a set off Rons shocks / springs also helps.

dial away !!



Those were pretty clear directions! Nice write up Kiwi! Sticky???
Clark Jones/ Noleen has some nice tools also for all of your alignment needs. I have his ride height to and I will be getting both his toe tool and caster/camber tool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Heres what I did with my limited tools. LOL I need to get a straight edge and or camber tool.

So i moved the spacers on either end of the of the heim joints from one on each side to both in the back. Moving the top a arm forward..Therefore adding castor, right?

Then I took and screwed the heim joints all 1 1/2 turns in. Adding camber. How much unsure. Looks like just a little.

Then I took a measurement from rear of wheels and the front of wheels and set it where its 1/4inch closer in the front. Therefore adding toe in right??

Tell me if this sounds some what close? Thanks driver
 

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Better for sure !!

You'll need more turns in on the heim, I think I went in three turns or there abouts, basically no thread showing !

Not keen on moving the heim spacers but that has the desired effect !

you set the toe with the front end dropped down so the tie rods where horizontal right ? 1/4" is plenty try 1/8"
 

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Yeah, I wouldn't move the spacers around the heim. To adjust castor, actually screw one of the heim bolts in further than the other where a different amount of threads are showing front versus rear.

You do not necessarily have to use special tools to adjust the front end. I used nothing besides a tape measure to do mine. Granted it took awhile double and triple-checking measurements, but you can start with both top a-arms being in the same position by screwing each heim all the way in for example. From there, back out the heims and adjust the tie-rods accordingly, making sure each side is equal (especially the tie-rods). For camber, measure the top of the tire from outside center tread block to outside center tread block and repeat where the tire meets the ground. I'll admit this is not an exact science but worked well for me. Camber is easy to eye-ball, and so is a toe setting. You can check toe the same way as camber, except use the front of the tire (furthest point forward) relative to the same point on the back of the tire. You'd be surprised how toe alone will drastically affect steering response - toe-in for better turning, toe-out for better straight-line stability.
 

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Heres what I did with my limited tools. LOL I need to get a straight edge and or camber tool.

So i moved the spacers on either end of the of the heim joints from one on each side to both in the back. Moving the top a arm forward..Therefore adding caster, right?

Then I took and screwed the heim joints all 1 1/2 turns in. Adding camber. How much unsure. Looks like just a little.

Then I took a measurement from rear of wheels and the front of wheels and set it where its 1/4inch closer in the front. Therefore adding toe in right??

Tell me if this sounds some what close? Thanks driver
Moving the top a-arm forward is actually decreasing caster and putting the top of the wheel in is increasing negative camber.

I fell like mine turns too easily, and was thinking of adding caster (moving the top ball joint rearward in relation to the lower) and adding a little more negative camber. Then reset toe of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Better for sure !!

You'll need more turns in on the heim, I think I went in three turns or there abouts, basically no thread showing !

Not keen on moving the heim spacers but that has the desired effect !

you set the toe with the front end dropped down so the tie rods where horizontal right ? 1/4" is plenty try 1/8"
You did that on the front heim only and pulled the rear one out? Or did you leave the rear alone?

Whats wrong with moving the spacers to the rear to get castor?
 

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good info Craig, but the measurement for the caster is still unclear. Do you know how many mm negative caster we should run. A friend of mine talks with Wayne at pep and he recommends 12mm. Any more than that and the front end pushes.I took a while to find the best spot to measure from and i finally came up with this. where the a-arms meet the round section that holds the ball joint there is small tab sticking out that represents the centre of the ball joint. I put a small line in the centre of each one with liquid paper so that i have the exact centre. I then place a set square on the floor and measure from the white lines on the back of the ball joint to the set square to get your measurement. If anyone has any good idea's please share.
 

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When I do alignment of front ends, My tools are a spare person, a magnetic pinion angle finder(measures degrees), and a metal framing square. Use the framing square up against the tire(flat side of square on flat side of side of tires) and stick the pinion angle finder on the square. make sure both sides are around 3 degrees and go from there are needed. But 3* seems so be a good spot. There really isnt anything bad with moving the heim spacers, they are just VERY large increments instead of using the threads as tiny increments. But atleast by seeing what the 2 different majors are(by moving spacers) you will know where you need to go with out too much trouble.

In a perfect world, you would want a jig for the front wheels that worked by removing your front wheels and mounting this(the jig) on the hubs so you could take perfect measurement and degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Brad your describing camber not castor. I need to know how to measure castor. There is no easy spot to measure on the balljoints. Usually you can just stick a straight edge against the flat side of both balljoints and then take a degree measurement off that. But the brakeline is in the way on this machine. I am curious where my bike is now. My buddies honda with rolldesign arms sits at about 12-13 degrees. Seems to be just right for him.
 

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I know, camber is pretty important. Caster just needs to be equal no matter where it is. If you have NO MEANS of measuring by degrees(wheel studs/ ball joints) then use identical points on the frame to atleast make the caster equal. If they are not equal then the quad will pull one direction or the other on flat surfaces.
 

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QUOTE
I fell like mine turns too easily, and was thinking of adding caster (moving the top ball joint rearward in relation to the lower) and adding a little more negative camber. Then reset toe of course.
I take back this set-up, While it felt great at wide open National tracks, on local and practice tracks the steering was way too heavy. I will be decreasing castor and retesting.
 

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I take back this set-up, While it felt great at wide open National tracks, on local and practice tracks the steering was way too heavy. I will be decreasing castor and retesting.

The KTm manual does mention the best way to adjust caster is to move the spacers only. I like where the caster is at, but camber Im uncertain of where mine is at. Noleen set my whole front end up.
 

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Noleen set my whole front end up
It would be nice to know exactly where professional suspension tuners set up different bikes. I know Walsh has generic settings available for everyone and rider preference may have alot to do with it, but different models should definately have different setting to compensate for handling characteristics and different frame geometry/ weight bias.
 
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