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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
yup, after 2 race meets and some seat time i'm disappointed, power is soft, the XC launches harder, we have tried it back to back !! the XC sticks the power down, the SX just blows it out in wheelspin, yes it revs but torque is what yanks you out of the turns.

Starts: i'm get my arse handed to me on a plate, normally I'm the one rippin the field, but not on this quad....... it's slow of the line. We have tried gearing changes, 3rd gear starts, geared up to increase second gears legs, different tires (the stockers are quite good actually), Akro pipe, altered jetting........ altered the rear shock damping and springing...... it just doesn't get strong drive for the first 50 feet, it's all over rover / hard work after that

it just doesn't have enough bite / drive off the gate and out of tight turns it's slow.....

We going to review the weekends video to try and see whats going on......... :(

my YFZ 480 would kill it dead........
 

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yup, after 2 race meets and some seat time i'm disappointed, power is soft, the XC launches harder, we have tried it back to back !! the XC sticks the power down, the SX just blows it out in wheelspin, yes it revs but torque is what yanks you out of the turns.

Starts: i'm get my arse handed to me on a plate, normally I'm the one rippin the field, but not on this quad....... it's slow of the line. We have tried gearing changes, 3rd gear starts, geared up to increase second gears legs, different tires (the stockers are quite good actually), Akro pipe, altered jetting........ altered the rear shock damping and springing...... it just doesn't get strong drive for the first 50 feet, it's all over rover / hard work after that

it just doesn't have enough bite / drive off the gate and out of tight turns it's slow.....

We going to review the weekends video to try and see whats going on......... :(

my YFZ 480 would kill it dead........
well that isnt what i wanted to hear from one of our famed aussie racers... how about i send you my 600 and you issues should be resolved.

i have ridden both sx models and in my humble opinion the power bands are very close to the other factory 4-strokes. the 505 had more torque than the 450, but i was expecting more. honestly, the 450sx reminded me of my ltr when it was stock.

i dont doubt your tuning ability so maybe you could experiment with porting and a intake cam...
 

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Porting and cam changes goes against everything this bike was designed for. Out of the box eye popping performance. If this is the case, then why not go get the 2009 Yamaha YFZ 450R with the GYT-R head and cams installed for thousands less. If there is a problem with this bike not launching due to torque issues kTm needs to do some more homework on it and get it fixed. I would love to see the kTm wax the competition out there and shut those yapjaps up and sell the living dog poop out of them. I love my kTm and we need more Orange out there. See ya all in the dunes!

Brian
 

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this is the first negative I have heard on the new sx and Im really interested in what he is saying. Can the other owners chime in with honest reviews. Im looking to buy one this month and need some input. Thanks
 

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This is the first negative comment I've heard as well. I cannot speak to the 505 because I have not ridden one, but from what I understand the power is very close to the 450 version which I have had at the track a couple of times now. I agree partially with what kiwi says. The KTMs do not seem to have an over-abundance of torque. The engines like to be revved and are happier in mid-full throttle situations. When I had my quad at the track in its showroom stock form, I too was disappointed with the performance. It would seriously bog coming out of corners and would not "pull" like I thought it would. I am happy to report that after installing a JD Jetting kit however, the power is right on with a modded Honda 450R or the like. It still does not produce the arm-yanking punch when the power hits, but it does pull very well out of the corners. I was at the track on Saturday and was actually surprised with how well it was hooking up and putting the power to the ground.

I cannot say why we would have such different experiences at the track. Perhaps my jetting is a little closer to "perfect" for the air temperature and elevation where I ride, or perhaps the softer track surface helps the rear end dig a little better. Could the KTM have more power? Sure. Does it really need it? Not in my opinion. I still believe it is the quickest stock quad available by quite a bit. Plus, the suspension alone helps you be a faster rider all over. My only complaint (sometimes) is the gear ratios seem to be a little short - 1st is useless, 2nd tops out too quick, but 3rd -5th seem to be right on. With the jetting changes, I can run almost the entire track in 3rd shifting into 4th on a couple of occassions.

In reality, I would hope kiwi's YFZ480 is faster. Considering the bore alone, likely combined with a higher compression piston and performance cams, a built engine should be faster.
 

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So you seem to be a little more happy with the suspession than he is. How do you compare it to some of the others suspensions out ther? Is the quad still in need of better suspension to be competative? Im worried abou the suspenstion and how it handles and jumps. The power doesnt scare me so bad. Im thinking slip on dasa, k&n filter, jet kit, and maybe a 42-43mm carb and Ill be happy with the power. Who knows maybe some light porting. But if Im gonna spend 11k on a bike I want the suspension to be up to par. You know what I mean????
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
sorry guys but this is the bottomline, I run two YFZ's and an LTR all with good suspenion and varying engine tunes. I was getting waxed by stock 08 LTR's on the track this weekend off the start - first 50 ft and had to do the kamikaze charge into the traffic first turn to pull back the places.......... I tried all combo's of gearing and start techniques I can tell ya, best was 2 nd place in race 4 into the first turn, most of the time 5th or 6th......... this is something I'm not used to !!!!

Bottom line, the new stock 08 LTR suspension is far better for Joe average. The KTM needs revalving and respringing to get it into the right ball park. Over dampened and over sprung, unless you weigh 300lbs........... we've been running all teh spring data through race techs online spring calculator............. (using the XC calculator assuming plus 2 arms)

The KTM's light weight is a huge advantage and probably worth the $$$ for that alone, hardest thing to do is make a fat bike lighter for MX....... and the LTR is a bit of a porker.......

Stock for stock engines the KTM is okay to good, it's a rev head for sure but the soft low end has really stood out on the starts, i've tried every technique I know looking for the best launch combo. On the re cammed XC i've been the holeshot king !!!

Gearing stock is way to low, gone to a 15 front and tried both 37 and 39 rears but settled on the stk 38 for now. Also tried ITP SX rears, not as good for side bite, to loose coming in and especially coming out of turns.......

Track was watered and machine hoed clay, super grippy, start straight though was very loose dried out powdery clay so lots of wheel spin needed to dig in. First 25 ft was the biggest difference I was getting nailed off the gate every time.

3 KTM's at the track (2 450 sx's and my 505) all experincing similar "hassles"

I've had a very informative chat with Travis over on KTM Talk.

plans are:

Travis suggested checking the TPS resistance, if these are off spec power really sags........ fingers crossed !!! I did have the carb hanging out for rejetting, maybe, hopefully the TPS is a bit off.......... but unlikely...........

change the intake cam, I'm leaning towards the crower vistory, these are a very good MX cam from my past experince on YFZ's. Travis was more keen on webs. I like a billet cam rather than reweld simply because of the exchange time frame for me - so Crower it is.

Change the ignition for a vortex unit and dial up a more aggressive timing map, i suspect that the stock timing is tame on the lower rpm side to cool the power delivery on the 2 wheelers

change the header to a steeped unit to help with the low end (stocker is to large a diameter up front) or go for the FMF megabomb, Travis reports a 3 hp gain the 2 wheelers with these !!

F2 make an exhaust port insert that helps low end, good reviews from the 2 wheeler guys so throw one of those in as well.

I think this engine is a candidate for the power now vane dodads to get intake velocity up, lets not get into endless debate on these okay ! they DO work on the low end side of things

Last thing it needs is more intake area............

I think an XC engine with an SX RFS crank and 540 or 570 setup/ porting / cam etc would be the better unit ! the heavier weight and higher traction levels of a quad vs a 2 wheeler needs more low end omph to push it hard out of the tight turns..........

:(
 

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It's very interesting to hear such different reviews of the same quad. I already wrote my opinions of the engine and power delivery in my post above. To recap, the KTMs do not produce as much torque as some riders may be used to, especially in comparison to a SOHC Honda 450R for example. However, with proper jetting, I feel the power is very strong. My quad pulls pretty hard out of corners. I was not able to race anyone directly as the track was pretty quiet this past weekend but say it would surpass any stock 450 and compare to a built one (cam, piston, exhaust).

As for suspension, I am very happy with the setup. The a-arms are fully adjustable which helped a lot. I dialed in a bit more camber and evened out the toe and castor and love turn-in now. The shocks are fully adjustable as well, and you are actually able to tell a difference between clicks no matter if you are adjusting high-speed compression, low-speed, or rebound. KTM lists the valving/spring rate in the manual as 154-176lbs. This number is far lower than most other manufacturers who build their shocks for 200-220lb. riders. I weigh right around 150lbs. so I notice the rear being a little stiff with the fronts being near perfect. Unless you are a Pro level rider, I can honestly say the suspension should work great as is. However, if you do not fall within or near the expected weight range, you may need to revalve them.

Besides the settings and feel, the suspension reacts very well. Uneven landings are a breeze and the shocks feel very plush on landings with excellent bottom-out resistance. There is one jump at my local track where I feel I may be bottoming out, but you are supposed to once each lap (ensures you are using the shock's entire travel range). The quad never reacts in a way other than expected. Even when I screw up on a jump, the quad doesn't punish me :p

Also to kiwi's other points, the weight of the KTM is a huge plus. It feels very light and agile. Also, as I said earlier, I can see where gearing could be a challenge depending on track conditions. It does rev out pretty quickly.

I should also add that I am using a built Honda 450R as a basis of comparison, as well as a mildly-tuned LTR450. The Honda has a full Lonestar/Axis setup and is probably the plushest quad I have ridden. The engine has been ported & polished, with a Stage 2 cam and higher compression piston (all built by CT Racing). The LTR had a pretty stock suspension setup with a DASA exhaust and Power Commander.
 

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Here are a couple of pictures of the suspension aired out and fully compressed ...



 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
actually thats not fully compressed, it just about bellies / drags the pegs when it's banging the stoppers hard................... I had dirt clods whacking my pegs / feet a couple of times on flat landings..........

Is it possible that they have changed the valving / spring mid production because there is no way, even with all clickers backed out and zero preload that my 505 is even remotely close to my LT axis rear / TCS LT / JB front on my yamaha in the suspension department.

It was a bucking bronco until we revalved it and resprung the rear end, front end is still to stiff on the main springs, very noticable the transition from the short to main springs for example, we dialed the cross over right back to get the front stroking.

the stock rear main spring measures out at 8.2 kg/mm in my suspension techs spring tester, racetech recommends a 7.4 for a 200 lb rider, currently I have my Ohlins spring (7.2 kg) in there, nice and plush i'm quite happy with that now with the revalving and respring it's raceable. Front needs more work and I'm picking about a 10% reduction in main spring plus adding a ZPS spring will get the nose down and behaving. We took alot of damping out with the revalving to get things working on the front also.

I get the stamped codes off my springs, I sure would like to here what you guys have on there, all 4 ktms that came down under are all identical (over dampened / over sprung).
 

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actually thats not fully compressed, it just about bellies / drags the pegs when it's banging the stoppers hard

I get the stamped codes off my springs, I sure would like to here what you guys have on there, all 4 ktms that came down under are all identical (over dampened / over sprung).
Good to know about the suspension. I guess this was the only picture I had with the suspension compressed to some degree.

I can look at my quad this weekend when I'm home to see if I can find some numbers on them, and I'll let you know what I find. Maybe KTMs are built to different specs for the U.S.?
 

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Maybe KTMs are built to different specs for the U.S.?
[/quote]
This is not the first time this has been implied! I would like to know if there is any truth to the matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
front springs

top 40 - 69
main 24/29- 275

rear springs

top 100 - 55
main 82 - 200

first number(s) are the spring rate kn/mm, where there are 2 numbers = progressive spring rate, second number is the length in mm

multiple kn by 5.7 = lbs/in

fronts

top = 228 lbs/in
mains = 137 - 165 lbs/in

rear
top = 570 lbs/in
main = 467 lbs/in
 

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yup, after 2 race meets and some seat time i'm disappointed, power is soft, the XC launches harder, we have tried it back to back !! the XC sticks the power down, the SX just blows it out in wheelspin, yes it revs but torque is what yanks you out of the turns.

Starts: i'm get my arse handed to me on a plate, normally I'm the one rippin the field, but not on this quad....... it's slow of the line. We have tried gearing changes, 3rd gear starts, geared up to increase second gears legs, different tires (the stockers are quite good actually), Akro pipe, altered jetting........ altered the rear shock damping and springing...... it just doesn't get strong drive for the first 50 feet, it's all over rover / hard work after that

it just doesn't have enough bite / drive off the gate and out of tight turns it's slow.....

We going to review the weekends video to try and see whats going on......... :(


Wow, if your assessment of the engine is accurate, then everything I've been reading about it in the magazines and on atvscene is wrong. Even the motocross guys have given the motor high praise. I know you have to take reviews with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to new models, but if true this is tantamount to lying. Here is what they said in this months ATV Action:

"How Fast is the DOHC 450sx? Wheelie Fast. The short stroke, high-compression motor is even more impressive than the 08 XC engine.... The new DOHC engine comes on harder off the bottom, pulls harder throughout the midrange and revs out further than the SOHC XC motor. It'll go around the the Red Bud Track'n'trail national and night tracks in third gear, alternately revving or lugging. It's got the power to wheelie out of corners or do huge sliders, and it has the torque to power up jumps with short approaches."

It sounds like an all-purpose engine, it luggs and revs. And similar praise can be found in Dirt Wheels and ATV Rider. In the latter magazine they even have 3 racers say the KTM is only about 3 horsepower shy of their full-on race motors. Again, I don't always trust magazines, but I'd like to think they have some integrity. I'm still planning on getting a 505sx.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
i dunno...... maybe mines a slow one !!

it just doesn't seem to put the power down hard, either flat response or lots of wheel spin ..... I'll add a JD jetting kit to the parts pile and see.......

it's one thing to ride a quad by it'self and think wow that's a fun ball of wax...alal magazine tests

it's another altogether when your on the line with 20 other guys and your getting roosted all day

I still like it don't get me wrong, i'll just be focusing on getting more low end bark out of the thing.

Weekends racing pics

I'm no 76
 

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"How Fast is the DOHC 450sx? Wheelie Fast. The short stroke, high-compression motor is even more impressive than the 08 XC engine.... The new DOHC engine comes on harder off the bottom, pulls harder throughout the midrange and revs out further than the SOHC XC motor. It'll go around the the Red Bud Track'n'trail national and night tracks in third gear, alternately revving or lugging. It's got the power to wheelie out of corners or do huge sliders, and it has the torque to power up jumps with short approaches."
From my experience thus far, this is an accurate description. After I jetted it properly, I was able to ride almost the entire track in 3rd gear, shifting into 2nd for a couple of slow corners, and into 4th on the fast back "straight" with large table-top and step-up jumps. Otherwise, 3rd gear would lug through the sweepers and come on strong when I snapped the throttle back open. I think my favorite part is being able to blip the throttle on jump take-offs to even out the quad in the air, especially on short approaches like the magazines said.

Kiwi -
I'll see if I can locate spring numbers on mine this weekend so we can confirm or deny whether Aussie and U.S. quads are different.
 

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i have a 06' ltr with:
hot cams both
yosh ti rs-5
u4.2 race fuel
13.0:1 cp piston
yosh pim
velocity air filter
13th front sprocket
same tires and rim combo as the ktm
kick start

the ktm for me definitly feels stronger, no doubt. i have gone 3/4 holeshots. 2 at itp and 1/1 locally. the suspension is better than my elkas on my ltr. i love both bikes. i am not bashing on my ltr one bit. the bike is awesome. i would like the ktm to have the throttle responsiveness of the fi on the ltr.

my only gripe about the ktm is the carburation. it misses some times. the ltr's fi never did.

the ktm has more bottom end. it pulls wheelies in third gear coming out of tight turns. no b.s. i promise. the ltr had more power i felt on top though. i never need to shift to second even on tight courses. i just use second for the starts. i feed the clutch out, i don't drop it. that might be your problem on starts.

i just raced a tt type race with jumps against some west coast pros at the ricky johnson innaguarral gp www.offroadgp.com ( you can find pictures at www.photoreflect.com just type in "ricky johnson" at the front page). i have the number 0 quad. i raced against darrell patton and doug eichner, and others. i got smoked, but throughout the whole track i was in 4th or 5th the whole time. this ktm definitly has power.

you can also see my ltr in the pics i let a friend use it because his ltr's trans blew up. he races pro at itp, and he got 4th at that race.
 

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Kiwi,
What you describe makes perfect sense. I had a stock YFZ and the power hit hard! Your XC motor is set up for low end. Most XC motors I have ridden of all brands are the same, lots of low end with smooth power delivery. All I have to compare to my 505 is my Baldwin National 450R. Actually there is no comparison, the 505 has much more bottom end and is easier to ride. Baldwin makes some of the fastest motors in the U.S. but my motor was a bit much for me to control. The only thing I know to tell you is use more clutch. I have found the more clutch I use in the corners the better it hooks up. As far as starts goes its just a matter of practice. Your SX is going to be much different than the power of your XC.
Good luck with your SX!
rrbaby87
 

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idk about you guys but im not the best at starts, 1 holeshot all year on the xc, 3 races on the sx and 2 holeshots, against 2 58hp LTRs
 

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Kiwi,
What you describe makes perfect sense. I had a stock YFZ and the power hit hard! Your XC motor is set up for low end. Most XC motors I have ridden of all brands are the same, lots of low end with smooth power delivery. All I have to compare to my 505 is my Baldwin National 450R. Actually there is no comparison, the 505 has much more bottom end and is easier to ride. Baldwin makes some of the fastest motors in the U.S. but my motor was a bit much for me to control. The only thing I know to tell you is use more clutch. I have found the more clutch I use in the corners the better it hooks up. As far as starts goes its just a matter of practice. Your SX is going to be much different than the power of your XC.
Good luck with your SX!
rrbaby87

Jakes machines are both set up for MX, he has the 505sx
 
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