Kickstart installed, and some questions answered...
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Thread: Kickstart installed, and some questions answered...

  1. #1
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    Lightbulb Kickstart installed, and some questions answered...

    Ok guys,

    Over the years, there have been a lot of kick-start discussions, but none of them really answered all of the questions to allow you to go into doing the conversion knowing what to expect. Having completed it recently, I will attempt to do that here.

    First off, you need to get “the pin.” This is the pin that the kick-start idler gear rides on and it is not available from KTM. I am looking into having them made, but presently, the best solution for the pin is to get it out of a set of junked cases. The best way to do that would be to find an old kick-start RFS case half and mill the cases down to get the pin out. You are not going to pull the pin out of there. The fit is too tight. I have heard that you can use the e-start idler pin as well, but I have not confirmed this.

    Once you have a pin, it can be installed by hammer/punch with some bronze to protect it, or with a press if your cases are apart. My cases were apart anyway when I installed it, but I heated that area of the case to a bit over 200°F with a heat gun and froze the pin. It went in quite easily. I haven’t tried it with an engine that is together yet. But I will be attempting that this winter.

    Next you need all the kick-start stuff. Gears, shaft, springs, washer, snap ring, bump-stop, tab the return spring bolts too, seal for the clutch cover, etc. At this point, you will notice that the 525 SX kickstart return spring rubs on the larger diameter atv clutch basket. The solution to this is the return spring from a KTM 85SX. (Part number 47033054000) This spring is a drop-in replacement for the 525SX return spring, but is about 5mm smaller diameter. The only modification you will have to do is to the tang on the spring that actually goes into the kickstart shaft. I had to shorten that tang by about 1/8 inch to get everything to fit.

    Once you button it all up, the 2-stroke kick lever (Part number 77033170044) works very well and if you kick with your heel, clears the fenders and heel-guards without issue. You will need to do some grinding (which I did with a simple bench grinder) to get the lever to clear the frame as well as notch it slightly for the 10mm bolt head that holds the header on. If you wanted to, a button-head bolt may go nicely here, but I haven’t had any issues with the notched lever yet.

    See the pictures below to see my setup. I’ve run 2 races on it and some play riding with no issues yet. I will say that when the quad is hot, it takes a decent kick to get past the vapor lock if it sits for a bit, but it always starts up, and is honestly probably more reliable in cold weather than the stock e-starter is anyway. I’ll update this post if I figure out whether or not you can use the E-start idler, and/or if I get a source for hardened pins. My machinist friend is confident he can turn them out, but wants to see one first, so I’m getting another one to give to him and see what he thinks.

    Thanks!





    Last edited by ScramblerXLE; 10-30-2013 at 09:38 PM.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  2. #2
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
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    Nice write up! I have access to a ton of hardened pins if you can get me the dimensions ill see what I can find.
    99mm thumper cylinder 15:1 comp, Crankworks billet stroker, Custom Carrillo short rod, Racers edge +4ti head, 48mm hsr carb, Shortened and stretched trx fci intake, Custom programmed vortex

    296lbs ready to ride. This might be the fastest ktm duner in the world

  3. #3
    Super Moderator KTMATVHQ Addict
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    Very nice. Ihave been wanting to do this. How much would you say it cost for the whole set up?

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  5. #4
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    ???????????

    Is this for SX, XC or both ?????

  6. #5
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    Is this a backup that you are retaining the battery? Im assuming not but in that case how are you handling the wiring harness, fan, lights, etc? voltage regulator still in use? Im assuming its pretty simple to wire and of course less weight from lack of starter & battery.
    Racing KTM 525xc's in WNYOA & GNCC

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  7. #6
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    Kmack, using ebay liberally, I came in a little under $200.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  8. #7
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    OH! One other interesting finding. With the battery unhooked, the bike WILL start up and run IF the fan is off and IF the status lights have been gutted, etc.

    I think 1 kick produces enough of a charge to light the ECU, but ONLY if a dead battery, fan, lights, etc aren't dragging the voltage down. I have to do some more testing on this, but I'm planning to use the key switch to isolate the battery/fan/lights from the CDI/rectifier/pulse coil so that even if your battery was stone-dead, you could shut the key off, kick the bike and start it, then turn the key back on to charge the battery back up...

    I'll be doing some more testing on this in the coming weeks as I get ready to build my new wiring harnesses.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  9. #8
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    You are a mad man, nice write up bud. Are you faster off the line with the kicker?
    ScramblerXLE likes this.
    '08 KTM 450XC

    I am XC Crazy

  10. #9
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    Yes. But it's an indirect effect. What the kicker allows me to do is leave the bike wired up for 24V all weekend and kick-start it any time I'm pit riding or whatever, up until the flag flies for my class. Then 2 fully-charged Lithium Ion batteries propel me to holeshots. I've tried quick connectors and a few other solutions, and they all have challenges, grit can get in the connectors, etc. This is the most elegant solution I think.

    All year before the break, I was last or nearly last into the woods. The 4 races after the break I was 3rd, 1st, 1st, and 2nd. If I would have figured this out at the beginning of the year, I may have been the Junior B champion. As it is, I finished 2 points back from the champ, in 3rd.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  11. #10
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    Kickstart installed, and some questions answered...-011.jpgKickstart installed, and some questions answered...-012.jpg
    Heres a few pics of my modified kickstart. its a 530exc engine from the enduro, i used the bottom knuckle part and welded it on.
    I also cut the splines of another kickstart shaft and inserted it into the knuckle and used a longer bolt to secure it all in place..

    the kickstart needed a little bit of grinding as did the frame so i could kick it over without catching..

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScramblerXLE View Post
    All year before the break, I was last or nearly last into the woods. The 4 races after the break I was 3rd, 1st, 1st, and 2nd. If I would have figured this out at the beginning of the year, I may have been the Junior B champion. As it is, I finished 2 points back from the champ, in 3rd.
    You had that much trouble getting it to fire quickly? I found that my ktms and the outlaw both fire rapidly as long as jetting is correct and my valves are set properly. I know when my valves have drifted a few thousandths when it starts firing harder.
    Racing KTM 525xc's in WNYOA & GNCC

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  13. #12
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    I've seen the parts list for the kickstart. Can I get the parts from a certain dirtbike?

  14. #13
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    Any RFS dirtbike exept the 250 would have theese parts.

  15. #14
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    Anyone know where I can find the magical pin or have one they would sell me? Any pictures of where this pin goes? Also, there is another thread with the below parts list. The last two items on that list are a plug/cap and an Oring. I can not find these on a part schematic. Are they needed and where do the go?


    BTW...Walt advises to use a different part # for the kickstart lever and spring which are cheaper than the part #s on the list. All parts on the list are just a bit over $200 at ktmpartshouse.com
    Attached Files Attached Files

  16. #15
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    My buddy that works at the machine shop has my second pin right now and he's looking into making them. Price point should be about $35. After he gets it done, I'll be putting it on my '09 engine and I'll put some pictures of it up as far as before, after, and how we did it.
    joey525xc likes this.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  17. #16
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    Update time!


    So here are all the parts you need to complete the kick-start kit as I did:

    59030025200 CLUTCH COVER GASKET 1
    77033170044 KICK STARTER CPL. 1
    0019080206 SPROCKET SCREW-AH M8X20 WS=6 1
    54633037000 WASHER 8MM GALVANIZED 1
    0760193070 SHAFT SEAL RING 19X30X7B 1
    59033055000 DRIVING HUB RACING 2000 1
    59033051039 KICKSTARTER GEAR 39-T 1
    0471170010 CIRCLIP DIN0471-17X1 1
    0988172405 SHIM WASHER DIN0988-17X24X0,5 x2!
    59033053000 INTERMEDIATE GEAR 24-T 1
    47033054000 KICKSTART SPRING 85 SX '03 1
    59033074000 SPRING HANGER 1
    0015060123 COLLAR SCREW M 6X12 WS=8 1
    59033080000 SHIM 20X32X1 1
    0471190120 CIRCLIPDIN0471-19X1,2 1
    0405222611 NEEDLE BEARING K 22X26X10 A 1
    59033069000 BUMP PART 1
    58033031000 STOP DISK 22,2 X 30 X 1,5 1
    58033028000 RATCHET GEAR SPRING 1,2 MM 1
    59033052000 RATCHET GEAR KICKSTARTER 1
    0015060203 COLLAR SCREW M 6X20 WS=8 x2!
    59033050100 KICKSTARTER SHAFT RACING 2000 1


    NOTE: In my how-to video, I incorrectly called the return spring a 65SX spring. It is not. It is a 2003 85SX spring. See the above part number.


    Below is a link to my How To video (currently uploading by the time you click it, it should be working) as well as some still pictures of the installation.


    I finally have the pins available for purchase! Purchase price is $40 shipped, and I accept payment through paypal. Send me a PM or call or text 517-227-0903 and I'll let you know if I have any on hand and when I could ship them.


    The next thing I'll be working on for these bikes is a race-cut wiring harness that allows the kick-starter to start the bike even with a dead battery. Hope to have that done sometime next month, so stay tuned!















    Last edited by ScramblerXLE; 12-23-2013 at 05:10 AM. Reason: Added the clutch cover gasket and updated a couple superseded part numbers
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  18. #17
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    Walt great job as usual. I will be purchasing a pin from you in order to do this to my 525 as well.
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  19. #18
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    Can you use both the electric start and the kick start?

  20. #19
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    Yes you can. In fact, my '09 has been starting on the gas using the kicker and the E-starter at the same time even when hot in several test starts. May not need to put 24V on that bike if I can get it off the line well that way.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  21. #20
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    so almost every other race im stuck on the side because my batteries die .. I run a 24 volt and it helps me get off the line but seems to fail a lot through races even if both batteries are brand new.... so essentially what im asking is will this help if my batteries die? can I resort to the kicker and be fine throught out the race if they do die


 
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