Kickstart installed, and some questions answered...
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  1. #21
    Super Moderator KTMATVHQ Guru

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    I think you have a more serious problem if 2 new batteries die in the time of doing 1 race.

  2. #22
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    Another public service announcement: The Ratchet mechanism tension spring can fatigue over time. If this happens, your kick-starter can skip every once in a while. The one I put on my 2009 did it once the day I took the above video but I thought it was a fluke. It has done it a handful of times since then. I did some looking and I guess that was something that could happen on the RFS engine and the solution is to replace that spring. Since the spring is cheap (under $2), I'd recommend everyone always use a new 58033028000 when installing their kick-starters for maximum life.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  3. #23
    Administrator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    you need to look at your regulator, clearly it and or your stator isn't working. the XC has a 200 watt stator system, the most powerful of any product sport ATV by miles...... it should easily be able to keep up ?
    KTM 505 SX: Web cams / 13.5:1 custom CP / balanced and modded crank / custom Vortex X10 ignition / Ported head / 43.5mm billet centre bored carb / KTM Akrapovic muffler / Mino hi vol water pump / 12 deg flexx's / houser stem / elka 5 / PEP PB1's and PEP LT rear / Walsh Flow A Arms / Quad tech seat & Foam / CF nose / FCI intake / relocated batt box / KTM Bill header / KTM factory SS Oil Pump setup / Manual cam chain tensioner Next round of mods: oil cooler........ the NEW TOP DOG 114 hrsÖ. best race engine I've owned

    KTM 554 XC
    : sx style crank, light weight SXF flywheel, TT sxf stator, steel linered cylinder, custom JE piston ceramic coating, plus 1 ported head / 807 cam, 43.5mm carb. Mino hi vol water pump. KTM Bill custom exhaust, FCI intake, JB A Arms, PEP PB1s front LT and rear , Lonestar axle, 12 deg Flexx's, CF nose, elka 3 steering damper, KTM factory nerfs, factory white plastic and graphics / gell cell battery Next round of mods: oil cooler........

    gotta stop spending $$$ on these KTM's...Ö..

    Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS - 2011
    , lonestar plus 2 A Arms, cut MXR front shocks (minus 1 ") with ZPS / ttripple rate, FUJ rear suspension rear shock mount units drops ride height 2", FUJ HD adj sway bar, 1.5Ē rear billet wheel spacers, Polaris nerfs, bumper and rear rack, Yoshi competition slip on, Pro Taper bars, acerbis hand guards, Trailtech GPS with billet protector. KTM throttle / Honda Front master cylinder and shorty lever / 41mm carb & hi flow intake runner / big filter / Billet FCR transition ring. Modified rear spring package / rear revalve.

    next round of mods: 8/33 cam, Hi Flow water pump and 540 cylinder / wossner piston waiting to go in, fastway 3 steering damper ala KTM setup, custom header using KTM XC header as a starting piece, light flywheel setup.
    gotta have something to modify this year !

    LTR 450
    , My Wife Nicola's ride & my back up mxer - 493 BB / JE piston / special order Yoshi motard cams / custom fueling map / tcs LT ZPS front end setup, TCS rear ZPS revalve / ims tank / TB exhaust / power commander / proflo - K&N / 14 deg flexx's / race nerfs / armadillo bumper/ Denton damper, next round of mods: ported head and carillo rod...... the clark kent of the ATV trio ! 210 hrs and still going strong ! the BB kit transformed this machine, it hauls the mail now !!!!

    A garage full of wheels and tires for them all........ speedway / sand / MX / cross country, over 30 at last count all on rims ready to rock

    NZ # 1 Vets champ 2013
    NZ Vets (40+) North Island MX champ 08, 09, 12 & 13
    NZ TT champ Vets (40+) 06, 08, 09,12 & 13
    Auckland ATV Club Sprint Series Champ 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 11, 12 & 13
    hope to get a good season in for the remainder of 2014.......finding time to ride being the biggest problem !

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  5. #24
    Senior Member Member
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    just got my kick start setup installed last night. works great, was easy to install, and started first kick.

  6. #25
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan46 View Post
    just got my kick start setup installed last night. works great, was easy to install, and started first kick.
    Awesome! You're the first person who isn't me that I've actually seen get one to work! Very cool!
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  7. #26
    Junior Member Rookie
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    ktm offers the pin in newer models, its 59033018000

  8. #27
    Junior Member Rookie
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    I have an xc that I use for mx, I am converting to kick, and Instead of using the 85 spring, I am getting the clutch basket, and primary drive gear for the dirtbike.

  9. #28
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
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    That should gear the quad up a bit. Let us know how it works.
    Mine:
    2017 Husky FX 450
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

  10. #29
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbinscycles View Post
    ktm offers the pin in newer models, its 59033018000
    Interesting! That part is for the 250+ 2-stroke which runs a different idler gear, but maybe it's the same size? Let us know if it works!
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  11. #30
    Junior Member Rookie
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    I checked the size of the circlip before I ordered, its the same circlip, so I went for it, and I just got it in, and stuck the idler gear on it to make sure it was the right diameter, and it is. and I was wanting it geared up, cause now im running a 16t front sprocket, and wouldn't mind it geared up more, this will also lighten up flywheel weight, so im interested in seeing how it runs.

  12. #31
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    Is the pin the appropriate length also? Did you measure how deep the hole is? I know the E-start idler gear pin is also the same diameter, but is too long.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  13. #32
    Junior Member Rookie
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    I haven't yet, but wasn't that worried about if I have to take off some length.

  14. #33
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Addict
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    Can this be done to the sx as well?

  15. #34
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
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    I don't believe so. KTM never made any kickstart dirt bikes in the 2007 to 2012 sxf engine family so the parts don't exist to do it.
    Mine:
    2017 Husky FX 450
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

  16. #35
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    The idle gear pin fit perfectly. Pressed it all the way in.

  17. #36
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    A word of caution regarding kick start conversions for the KTM XC ATV (using either the KTM pin OR the replica that Iíve sold):

    Some background:

    People were doing kick start conversions since the KTM ATVs came out. The primary challenge in installing the kick starter involved sourcing the pin that the idler gear rides on. No one in the community knew the KTM part number for this pin. Some folks had replicas made, and others actually got them out of old dirt bike cases. When I set out to install the kick starter on my KTM ATV, I contacted DJH and had him mill a pin out of an old set of dirt bike cases for me. I installed the kick start and after a bit of testing with no issues, I decided to get another pin from him for my second ATV. A machinist friend of mine wanted to install the kick start on his ATV as well, and we decided to start making copies of the KTM pin. Due to interest on KTMATVHQ and other places, those copies became the replica pins that I sold for a while.

    Before selling any of those pins to the public, I installed one in one of my engines. It is still in that engine today and has been problem-free. Several of my friends also got the pins before they were really released to the public and everyone seemed to have good luck putting them together. A few months after I began selling the pins, a user on the KTMATVHQ forums was able to locate a part number from KTM. I actually purchased one of those pins and verified that it was in fact the same as the second pin that DJH had sold me and it was, so I stopped having replicas made.

    The issue:

    Recently, I installed the last replica pin that I had in a friendís engine. We heated the cases and froze the pin and as I was centering it up to drive it into the cases, it simply dropped into the hole. It didnít require any driving at all. I found this unsettling, as every installation Iíve done has required a fair amount of force to drive the pin in. Once the cases cooled, the pin did not move and we could not pull it out. Since I had never received any complaints of a pin falling out of the case, we decided that it was likely fine and re-assembled the engine. After an hour or so of ride-time however, the pin migrated out and came into contact with the clutch basket, breaking one of the 6 ďspokesĒ off. This piece fell into the shifting mechanism and locked the ATV in gear. At this point, I was concerned that the pin may have been the wrong size, but measuring it against the KTM pin revealed that this was not the case. It appears that the hole in his cases is slightly larger than what weíve experienced in the past. Fortunately, the engine is otherwise fine and just needs a new clutch basket. The pin has been removed and a one-off pin is in the works to get my friendís kick starter working again.

    In the meantime, Iíve purchased another KTM pin for one of my spare engines and decided to take some measurements prior to installation. This pin was actually the largest Iíve received yet from KTM, but still has only 0.0005Ē of interference, which I donít feel is enough to ensure that it will never come out. Iíll be having a one-off pin made for this engine as well.

    My current theory:

    KTM used a bolt to locate the pin in the dirt bikes. Since the reverse shaft is in the way, this is not possible in KTM ATV applications, and those of us who have been doing kick start conversions have been relying on the interference fit to hold the pin into the cases. Unfortunately, since the interference fit was not intended to be the method for holding the pin in, it doesnít look like it is very tightly controlled. Iíve purchased a total of 4 KTM pins. Two of them were removed from old RFS engines, and 2 of them are the newly discovered part number 59033018000 pin. The diameter of these 4 pins has varied by 0.001Ē. On my latest installation, using the largest diameter KTM pin Iíve received to date, I have only 0.0005Ē of interference, meaning that if I was using the smallest KTM pin Iíve ever received, Iíd have a slip-fit at room temperature!

    My recommendations:

    I donít think this is an epidemic by any stretch of the imagination. If you have installed a kick start on your ATV and have been running it for a while with no issues, I would think everything is fine. I have 2 KTM pins and 1 replica pin across the 3 engines that I have set up for kick start and have been running them for a year now with no issues. I have many friends who have been running the replica pins with no issues as well. In addition, I didnít invent this idea. Many folks were doing kick start conversions long before I did and have had no problems. As long as the pin needed to be driven into the cases, even with the heat, you should be fine. I would still probably remove the clutch hub from time to time and check it and make sure everything is OK if youíre worried.

    If you have recently installed the kick start and havenít run it yet, and the pin nearly fell into place, Iíd be trying to remove it, and do some measurements, or just keep an eye on it, removing the clutch hub from time to time and ensuring that nothing has moved until youíre satisfied that everything is OK.

    If you have been planning on installing the kick start, but havenít done so yet, Iíd take measurements before you do. If you donít have about 0.0010Ē Ė 0.0015Ē of interference, feel free to contact me and we can talk about making a one-off pin. My machinist friend can do it, but obviously, I donít have them sitting on the shelf. Other options include using loc-tite / set screws, etc but thatís not something we have tried.

    As ever, feel free to contact me with any questions.
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  18. #37
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    Looked up the part....


    $9.00....? Doesnt seem right.

  19. #38
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
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    It's right. MSRP is something like $10.56 KTM lists it as "Bearing Pin"
    -Walt # 728
    Schumacher Race Works LLC
    '2015' KTM 525XC GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM
    525XC
    GNCC Quad
    2009 KTM 450XC XC Quad
    2013 KTM 250XC XC Bike
    2006 KLX 250S Dual Sport Bike
    2002 Cannondale C440 XC Bike
    2003 Cannondale Cannibal 440 XC Quad (project)
    2005 Predator 500 XC quad (project)
    2002 Scrambler 500 XLE

  20. #39
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    Yea that's right. I just got mine from rocky Mountain about 2 weeks ago and it was 9 and some change.

  21. #40
    Administrator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    Could always use loctite press fit on the end of the shaft as well to help "glue" it on.
    KTM 505 SX: Web cams / 13.5:1 custom CP / balanced and modded crank / custom Vortex X10 ignition / Ported head / 43.5mm billet centre bored carb / KTM Akrapovic muffler / Mino hi vol water pump / 12 deg flexx's / houser stem / elka 5 / PEP PB1's and PEP LT rear / Walsh Flow A Arms / Quad tech seat & Foam / CF nose / FCI intake / relocated batt box / KTM Bill header / KTM factory SS Oil Pump setup / Manual cam chain tensioner Next round of mods: oil cooler........ the NEW TOP DOG 114 hrsÖ. best race engine I've owned

    KTM 554 XC
    : sx style crank, light weight SXF flywheel, TT sxf stator, steel linered cylinder, custom JE piston ceramic coating, plus 1 ported head / 807 cam, 43.5mm carb. Mino hi vol water pump. KTM Bill custom exhaust, FCI intake, JB A Arms, PEP PB1s front LT and rear , Lonestar axle, 12 deg Flexx's, CF nose, elka 3 steering damper, KTM factory nerfs, factory white plastic and graphics / gell cell battery Next round of mods: oil cooler........

    gotta stop spending $$$ on these KTM's...Ö..

    Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS - 2011
    , lonestar plus 2 A Arms, cut MXR front shocks (minus 1 ") with ZPS / ttripple rate, FUJ rear suspension rear shock mount units drops ride height 2", FUJ HD adj sway bar, 1.5Ē rear billet wheel spacers, Polaris nerfs, bumper and rear rack, Yoshi competition slip on, Pro Taper bars, acerbis hand guards, Trailtech GPS with billet protector. KTM throttle / Honda Front master cylinder and shorty lever / 41mm carb & hi flow intake runner / big filter / Billet FCR transition ring. Modified rear spring package / rear revalve.

    next round of mods: 8/33 cam, Hi Flow water pump and 540 cylinder / wossner piston waiting to go in, fastway 3 steering damper ala KTM setup, custom header using KTM XC header as a starting piece, light flywheel setup.
    gotta have something to modify this year !

    LTR 450
    , My Wife Nicola's ride & my back up mxer - 493 BB / JE piston / special order Yoshi motard cams / custom fueling map / tcs LT ZPS front end setup, TCS rear ZPS revalve / ims tank / TB exhaust / power commander / proflo - K&N / 14 deg flexx's / race nerfs / armadillo bumper/ Denton damper, next round of mods: ported head and carillo rod...... the clark kent of the ATV trio ! 210 hrs and still going strong ! the BB kit transformed this machine, it hauls the mail now !!!!

    A garage full of wheels and tires for them all........ speedway / sand / MX / cross country, over 30 at last count all on rims ready to rock

    NZ # 1 Vets champ 2013
    NZ Vets (40+) North Island MX champ 08, 09, 12 & 13
    NZ TT champ Vets (40+) 06, 08, 09,12 & 13
    Auckland ATV Club Sprint Series Champ 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 11, 12 & 13
    hope to get a good season in for the remainder of 2014.......finding time to ride being the biggest problem !


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