Ktm 450 sx 09 oil coming from crank breather hose and 5th gear is slipping
Results 1 to 17 of 17
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By Youngwildandfree
  • 1 Post By quad97

Thread: Ktm 450 sx 09 oil coming from crank breather hose and 5th gear is slipping

  1. #1
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17

    Ktm 450 sx 09 oil coming from crank breather hose and 5th gear is slipping

    Swopped my road bike for a ktm quad.
    Did a test ride in a build up area so could not hit 5th gear... loaded the quad and headed back home that was 2 hour drive. Got home and checked all fluids before taking it out for a good test run.. while i was checking the oil i could see oil was dripping from the crank breather hose... straight away piston rings came to mind or over fill of oil... checked the level it was half in the sight glass... took the bike out nice smooth run to warm her up when i came to a straight it was time to feel what this ktm is all about and man it ripped but my face dropped when i hit 5th gear and it was slipping... was not happy at all so guess dogs are worn out so engine needs splitting.
    Has anyone ever came across this on the ktm... i can also smell fuel fumes coming out of the breather hose so i guess some fuel is running past the rings...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    297
    Fuel smell in oil can be normal if you are running an very toxic fuel, fumes leak passed rings way before the fuel itself. My oil smells a little like VP u4.4 whenever I drain it. If you ever smelled that you know how toxic it is. Or if the engine is stopped while fuel is on top of the piston it might slowly leak down the cylinder walls. But it sounds like you’re describing serious fuel amounts in your oil. You could do a leak down test to see if your rings aren’t sealing. Although your diagnosis for fifth gear seems correct, it all has to come apart anyways.
    Here’s a link to a reputable members’ sticky in what ever SX should have. https://www.ktmatvhq.com/forum/sx-en...asic-mods.html

  3. #3
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    297
    Something I didn’t mention was I would make sure it wasn’t just your clutch slipping, if you were in a high-traction situation and gave all it had in a Hugh gear it’s possible the clutch slipped for a second. I read the stock springs on these clutches aren’t what they need to be, especially if worn.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    KTMATVHQ.com
    Advertisements

  5. #4
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Youngwildandfree View Post
    Something I didnít mention was I would make sure it wasnít just your clutch slipping, if you were in a high-traction situation and gave all it had in a Hugh gear itís possible the clutch slipped for a second. I read the stock springs on these clutches arenít what they need to be, especially if worn.
    Thanks for the Info... will get back when the engine is open..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #5
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    1,056
    Was it making any noise when 5th was slipping? Like obvious metal to metal gears grinding, or just felt it wasn't getting the power to the ground? I could tell a difference when my 505 SX was new with only 10hrs on it switching from stock clutch springs and plates to Hinson springs and Honda plates. Stock with no engine mods, full throttle, and on pavement there was a difference in clutch hookup.

    The SX engines are very sensitive to oil level. I try to run it so it's only 1/4" up in the sight glass when the quad is sitting level. Any more than 1/3 of the way up in the window and it can puke it out the crankcase breather tube under certain conditions.
    Mine:
    2017 Husky FX 450
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

  7. #6
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by quad97 View Post
    Was it making any noise when 5th was slipping? Like obvious metal to metal gears grinding, or just felt it wasn't getting the power to the ground? I could tell a difference when my 505 SX was new with only 10hrs on it switching from stock clutch springs and plates to Hinson springs and Honda plates. Stock with no engine mods, full throttle, and on pavement there was a difference in clutch hookup.

    The SX engines are very sensitive to oil level. I try to run it so it's only 1/4" up in the sight glass when the quad is sitting level. Any more than 1/3 of the way up in the window and it can puke it out the crankcase breather tube under certain conditions.
    Clunk clunk noise... definitely not clutch slipping i wish it was .

    I will give it a oil change to make sure its got the amount recommended... is it safe to idle for couple seconds to make sure all the oil is out of the system????


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #7
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    1,056
    Ah, sorry to hear that.

    Do you mean start it and idle after the oil plug has been pulled out to try to get the last of the old oil out of the pump cavities? If so I wouldn't do that. The cams are known to seize in their journals in the head when they are starved for oil. That's enough for me not to chance it. If you see a lot of metal in the oil coming out it's probably best to not run it and disassemble to clean it out. On the oil contamination note, be sure to check the pumps for damage from debris. They use plastic rotors and are susceptible to damage. I change the high pressure pump rotor by the shift lever every time I change the piston as a precautionary measure.
    Mine:
    2017 Husky FX 450
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

  9. #8
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by quad97 View Post
    Ah, sorry to hear that.

    Do you mean start it and idle after the oil plug has been pulled out to try to get the last of the old oil out of the pump cavities? If so I wouldn't do that. The cams are known to seize in their journals in the head when they are starved for oil. That's enough for me not to chance it. If you see a lot of metal in the oil coming out it's probably best to not run it and disassemble to clean it out. On the oil contamination note, be sure to check the pumps for damage from debris. They use plastic rotors and are susceptible to damage. I change the high pressure pump rotor by the shift lever every time I change the piston as a precautionary measure.
    Thanks for that... use to flush my old bikes with diesel to clean them out... when the motor is open i will replace all damaged and worn parts...



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #9
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    So engine is split and this was the problems i found.

    1. Left intake valve seal was worn a bit as i could see oil... hence the small amount of smoking.

    2. Flywheel threads have been damaged by some nut head... lucky got it of by the 4 threads thats left.

    3. 3rd to 5th gear was worn on the dogs not that much but noticeable...

    4. Shift fork war word like so bad... hence the gear popping in and out.

    I think there was to much oil in before as it stopped spitting oil and when i drained it there was about 1.8L that came out... loads more came out when the case was split in 2.

    My question is was the dog just getting worn out by the heat on it or wAs it worn out because the gears got worn first from not shifting properly putting more strain on the fork.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #10
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    297
    Hardened steal does not gouge easy, and the RFS transmissions are the toughest I’ve ever owned. I don’t use my clutch all the time at all (before I had a rekluse too) and when I took mine apart I didn’t even see wear on the gears. Whoever had it before you clearly cared about getting it into gear more than he did keeping the trans in decent shape. As for the flywheel threads, once again, crankshaft is hardened steel. How the heck do you that one out of all places? I would think if you were gonna strip something out the aluminum case threads wherever would be the first to go. Things happen I guess.
    When you get your new forks I put the part of the fork that sits in the grooves on the drum and make sure it didn’t develop a ton of play, also would look at the shifting star and make sure the points that keep it in a certain gear are defined enough. If he was shifting like it sounds all these parts are more likely to have issues. I would just replace all valve seals. If you’re wanting to go cheap, I bet you could get away with polishing the trans gears and just buying new forks, I’ve never believed in risking it but some people do.

  12. #11
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Youngwildandfree View Post
    Hardened steal does not gouge easy, and the RFS transmissions are the toughest Iíve ever owned. I donít use my clutch all the time at all (before I had a rekluse too) and when I took mine apart I didnít even see wear on the gears. Whoever had it before you clearly cared about getting it into gear more than he did keeping the trans in decent shape. As for the flywheel threads, once again, crankshaft is hardened steel. How the heck do you that one out of all places? I would think if you were gonna strip something out the aluminum case threads wherever would be the first to go. Things happen I guess.
    When you get your new forks I put the part of the fork that sits in the grooves on the drum and make sure it didnít develop a ton of play, also would look at the shifting star and make sure the points that keep it in a certain gear are defined enough. If he was shifting like it sounds all these parts are more likely to have issues. I would just replace all valve seals. If youíre wanting to go cheap, I bet you could get away with polishing the trans gears and just buying new forks, Iíve never believed in risking it but some people do.
    See its a 50/50... the problem i will have is it will play in the back of my mind knowing 2 gears are worn out a bit... the wear on it does not look bad at all just the fork is completely destroyed... other gears look great same with star and drum... got a small diamond tip on the bad bits in the flywheel just taking some of the rough bits off... flywheel puller went on nicely all the way and she popped off... the sliding gear where the fork goes in has had a lot of heat on it by the colour its showing...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #12
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    297
    Yep... You sound like you know what you’re doing, I always lean on the side of no risk, but I’ve seen engines run and shift WAY worse than those gears. If you want to dummy-proof it from happening again, rekluse makes an awesome clutch. Tho it ahoukdnt be a problem at all if it’s ridden right.
    Tinus likes this.

  14. #13
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    1,056
    Not sure if they bent the shift fork first by forcing the shifting (or possibly landing on the shift lever with their foot on a jump), or the worn gear dogs kept trying to forcing itself out of gear enough that it did that to the fork over who knows how long. I had a Suzuki z400 transmission that would round the gear dogs of 3rd and 4th just like what you can see in your last picture. Would auto-downshift itself from 4th to 3rd under heavy loads. Once it started happening there was no fixing it without replacing the gears. That little bit of wear started putting the dog faces out of parallel with each other and slightly pushing each other apart under load. Ended up just being part of the annual tear down and rebuild to replace them before it started happening again. So based on past experience I would replace any gears that look like that if I were in your shoes.
    Tinus likes this.
    Mine:
    2017 Husky FX 450
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

  15. #14
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17

    Ktm 450 sx 09 oil coming from crank breather hose and 5th gear is slipping

    Just a question here guys as i think i know what the cause was for the fork and gears to fail correct me if im wrong... im new to this gearbox and as i did my checks i came across the main shaft bearing on left case was cracked and had metal marks on the outer lip so i took a look at the gear that sits next to that bearing and it was worn out like crazy... was a bit mind blown as the spacer was in place so what i think happened was some idiot put the gear on the wrong way(not happy) just happy the bearing did not pop and destroy the hole box and so... i will add pics so you guys can see... the one question i wane ask is what way does that gear go??? I just wane make sure i get it right first time... the manual does not show much....
    Last edited by Tinus; 06-27-2019 at 07:02 PM.

  16. #15
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinus View Post
    Just a question here guys as i think i know what the cause was for the fork and gears to fail correct me if im wrong... im new to this gearbox and as i did my checks i came across the main shaft bearing on left case was cracked and had metal marks on the outer lip so i took a look at the gear that sits next to that bearing and it was worn out like crazy... was a bit mind blown as the spacer was in place so what i think happened was some idiot put the gear on the wrong way(not happy) just happy the bearing did not pop and destroy the hole box and so... i will add pics so you guys can see... the one question i wane ask is what way does that gear go??? I just wane make sure i get it right first time... the manual does not show much....
    So it looks like that gear was in the right way. That bearing must of been forced in that damaged the outer ring and pushed in the inner ring causing the spacer not to act as a spacer and the gear rubbing the bearing..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #16
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Billings, MT
    Posts
    1,056
    Wow I've never seen a race busted on a bearing like that! Wonder if it got installed slightly crooked and someone forced it. Is that the one on the primary shaft (where the clutch slave cylinder covers it)? Running with a chain that's too tight could do that to the countershaft bearing, but that one looks a little smaller to me.
    Mine:
    2017 Husky FX 450
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

  18. #17
    Junior Member Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by quad97 View Post
    Wow I've never seen a race busted on a bearing like that! Wonder if it got installed slightly crooked and someone forced it. Is that the one on the primary shaft (where the clutch slave cylinder covers it)? Running with a chain that's too tight could do that to the countershaft bearing, but that one looks a little smaller to me.
    That wAs on the main shaft flywheel side.
    Like you said i also think it was forced in and damaged... when i install the new one i will make sure there is a gap between the gear and bearing before joining the cases.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts