need some advise
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  1. #1
    Moderator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    after this weekends disastrous outcome, i realized that if i could get better at starts, i wouldnt have to push so hard to catch riders and be knocked off by the slower ones, once i get going, i am one of the faster riders, top 3 easily, but i am usully at the back of the pack off the start and work my way up, it works ok, but its a lot more tiring, id much rather be up there right off the start.


    the way i usually do it is:

    stock gearing
    1st gear
    revved about 3/4
    drop the clutch then shift up quickly

    problems:
    no traction= bad start

    the way im experimenting with is:
    stock gearing
    2nd gear
    high revs
    drop the clutch

    problem: wheelies


    i need some advice here, thanks in advance, BTW its a gate drop start
    2016 Walsh/Elka YFZ450R
    2011 Raptor 125
    2009 450sx
    2008 525XC
    2006LT80

  2. #2
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Addict

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    Quote Originally Posted by bh84 View Post
    after this weekends disastrous outcome, i realized that if i could get better at starts, i wouldnt have to push so hard to catch riders and be knocked off by the slower ones, once i get going, i am one of the faster riders, top 3 easily, but i am usully at the back of the pack off the start and work my way up, it works ok, but its a lot more tiring, id much rather be up there right off the start.


    the way i usually do it is:

    stock gearing
    1st gear
    revved about 3/4
    drop the clutch then shift up quickly

    problems:
    no traction= bad start

    the way im experimenting with is:
    stock gearing
    2nd gear
    high revs
    drop the clutch

    problem: wheelies


    i need some advice here, thanks in advance, BTW its a gate drop start
    I too love the 2nd gear starts (No chance of shifting to neutral)...Cheap fix drop to a 13T front and try 2nd gear starts again...Not so cheap go with smaller tires on rear and stock gearing and then try 2nd gear starts again?...
    I don't race MX or XC, but I'm not a slouch at sand drags or hill shooting...

  3. #3
    Administrator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    the art of the start........

    1st gear = last everytime......

    the easiest passing you can make is at the start !

    2nd gear is where it is at, and if your gearing is right and have the HP 3rd !

    I pull 3rd gear start on my YFZ 480 at the mx track in the right conditions, The KTM doesn't have the grunt, tried it, to slow .

    I'm running plus 1 tooth in front with 18" mx tires and it pulls second gear starts a breeze.

    Don't drop the clutch in one instant, think of it as a fast easing out feeding in the power. Yes it is a bit wheelie prone = soft rear spring rate !

    Get your weight forward to get the rear end spinning then move your weight back as you launch off the line to get max drive, if it wheeleies then your getting max drive, keep it pinned (obviuosly if you screw it up a loop out is the order of the day...)

    The clutch feed out / spin up and move the weight happens in like 1 second then move your weight. It's a knack thing you need to practise. The KTM is a strong launching quad when you get it right.

    secondly keep it pinned hard all the way into the first turn, alot of guys back off and you can pick em off here easy every time.

    drop gate, sit back a bit of the gate if you can 1 foot or so....... soon as that gate moves feed in the clutch.

    PRACTISE PRACTISE PRACTISE

    2nd / weight forward / launch / weight transfer / don't back off
    KTM 505 SX: Web cams / 13.5:1 custom CP / balanced and modded crank / custom Vortex X10 ignition / Ported head / 43.5mm billet centre bored carb / KTM Akrapovic muffler / Mino hi vol water pump / 12 deg flexx's / houser stem / elka 5 / PEP PB1's and PEP LT rear / Walsh Flow A Arms / Quad tech seat & Foam / CF nose / FCI intake / relocated batt box / KTM Bill header / KTM factory SS Oil Pump setup / Manual cam chain tensioner Next round of mods: oil cooler........ the NEW TOP DOG 114 hrs…. best race engine I've owned

    KTM 554 XC
    : sx style crank, light weight SXF flywheel, TT sxf stator, steel linered cylinder, custom JE piston ceramic coating, plus 1 ported head / 807 cam, 43.5mm carb. Mino hi vol water pump. KTM Bill custom exhaust, FCI intake, JB A Arms, PEP PB1s front LT and rear , Lonestar axle, 12 deg Flexx's, CF nose, elka 3 steering damper, KTM factory nerfs, factory white plastic and graphics / gell cell battery Next round of mods: oil cooler........

    gotta stop spending $$$ on these KTM's...…..

    Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS - 2011
    , lonestar plus 2 A Arms, cut MXR front shocks (minus 1 ") with ZPS / ttripple rate, FUJ rear suspension rear shock mount units drops ride height 2", FUJ HD adj sway bar, 1.5” rear billet wheel spacers, Polaris nerfs, bumper and rear rack, Yoshi competition slip on, Pro Taper bars, acerbis hand guards, Trailtech GPS with billet protector. KTM throttle / Honda Front master cylinder and shorty lever / 41mm carb & hi flow intake runner / big filter / Billet FCR transition ring. Modified rear spring package / rear revalve.

    next round of mods: 8/33 cam, Hi Flow water pump and 540 cylinder / wossner piston waiting to go in, fastway 3 steering damper ala KTM setup, custom header using KTM XC header as a starting piece, light flywheel setup.
    gotta have something to modify this year !

    LTR 450
    , My Wife Nicola's ride & my back up mxer - 493 BB / JE piston / special order Yoshi motard cams / custom fueling map / tcs LT ZPS front end setup, TCS rear ZPS revalve / ims tank / TB exhaust / power commander / proflo - K&N / 14 deg flexx's / race nerfs / armadillo bumper/ Denton damper, next round of mods: ported head and carillo rod...... the clark kent of the ATV trio ! 210 hrs and still going strong ! the BB kit transformed this machine, it hauls the mail now !!!!

    A garage full of wheels and tires for them all........ speedway / sand / MX / cross country, over 30 at last count all on rims ready to rock

    NZ # 1 Vets champ 2013
    NZ Vets (40+) North Island MX champ 08, 09, 12 & 13
    NZ TT champ Vets (40+) 06, 08, 09,12 & 13
    Auckland ATV Club Sprint Series Champ 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 11, 12 & 13
    hope to get a good season in for the remainder of 2014.......finding time to ride being the biggest problem !

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  5. #4
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Addict

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    Excellent write up and explanation Kiwi...would love to see you in action using that launch...

  6. #5
    Moderator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    thanks kiwi!

    i cant do the whole start last and pass everyone thing anymore, its too hard on me and the bike.
    2016 Walsh/Elka YFZ450R
    2011 Raptor 125
    2009 450sx
    2008 525XC
    2006LT80

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    107
    on same subject ....

    I Drag up hills at the dunes and start in 2nd and then shift to 3rd about 1/4 way up but I can never get top rpm's in 3rd. Something I'm considering is dropping 1 tooth in front and 1 in the back. I'm still running stock sprockets so I figure I'll make this change when I decide which sprocket to go with. I'm thinking sidewinder titanium is enticing but maybe over-kill. Anyway I'm trying to decide more about dropping 1 or 2 teeth in the back. If I drop 1 tooth in front and 2 in rear I should be a half tooth lower geared. But I'm not sure if I'd be better off going 1/1 then I could get higher rpm's in 3rd and maybe even be able to get in 4th. Any thoughts?
    Running 525
    -Voodoo

  8. #7
    Administrator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    when the track is real grippy i crouch with my butt off the seat, that transfers your wieght up and forward through the pegs, slide back onto the seat as you get of the line to regulate the grip.
    KTM 505 SX: Web cams / 13.5:1 custom CP / balanced and modded crank / custom Vortex X10 ignition / Ported head / 43.5mm billet centre bored carb / KTM Akrapovic muffler / Mino hi vol water pump / 12 deg flexx's / houser stem / elka 5 / PEP PB1's and PEP LT rear / Walsh Flow A Arms / Quad tech seat & Foam / CF nose / FCI intake / relocated batt box / KTM Bill header / KTM factory SS Oil Pump setup / Manual cam chain tensioner Next round of mods: oil cooler........ the NEW TOP DOG 114 hrs…. best race engine I've owned

    KTM 554 XC
    : sx style crank, light weight SXF flywheel, TT sxf stator, steel linered cylinder, custom JE piston ceramic coating, plus 1 ported head / 807 cam, 43.5mm carb. Mino hi vol water pump. KTM Bill custom exhaust, FCI intake, JB A Arms, PEP PB1s front LT and rear , Lonestar axle, 12 deg Flexx's, CF nose, elka 3 steering damper, KTM factory nerfs, factory white plastic and graphics / gell cell battery Next round of mods: oil cooler........

    gotta stop spending $$$ on these KTM's...…..

    Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS - 2011
    , lonestar plus 2 A Arms, cut MXR front shocks (minus 1 ") with ZPS / ttripple rate, FUJ rear suspension rear shock mount units drops ride height 2", FUJ HD adj sway bar, 1.5” rear billet wheel spacers, Polaris nerfs, bumper and rear rack, Yoshi competition slip on, Pro Taper bars, acerbis hand guards, Trailtech GPS with billet protector. KTM throttle / Honda Front master cylinder and shorty lever / 41mm carb & hi flow intake runner / big filter / Billet FCR transition ring. Modified rear spring package / rear revalve.

    next round of mods: 8/33 cam, Hi Flow water pump and 540 cylinder / wossner piston waiting to go in, fastway 3 steering damper ala KTM setup, custom header using KTM XC header as a starting piece, light flywheel setup.
    gotta have something to modify this year !

    LTR 450
    , My Wife Nicola's ride & my back up mxer - 493 BB / JE piston / special order Yoshi motard cams / custom fueling map / tcs LT ZPS front end setup, TCS rear ZPS revalve / ims tank / TB exhaust / power commander / proflo - K&N / 14 deg flexx's / race nerfs / armadillo bumper/ Denton damper, next round of mods: ported head and carillo rod...... the clark kent of the ATV trio ! 210 hrs and still going strong ! the BB kit transformed this machine, it hauls the mail now !!!!

    A garage full of wheels and tires for them all........ speedway / sand / MX / cross country, over 30 at last count all on rims ready to rock

    NZ # 1 Vets champ 2013
    NZ Vets (40+) North Island MX champ 08, 09, 12 & 13
    NZ TT champ Vets (40+) 06, 08, 09,12 & 13
    Auckland ATV Club Sprint Series Champ 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 11, 12 & 13
    hope to get a good season in for the remainder of 2014.......finding time to ride being the biggest problem !

  9. #8
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Addict

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Prosper, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooMagik View Post
    on same subject ....

    I Drag up hills at the dunes and start in 2nd and then shift to 3rd about 1/4 way up but I can never get top rpm's in 3rd. Something I'm considering is dropping 1 tooth in front and 1 in the back. I'm still running stock sprockets so I figure I'll make this change when I decide which sprocket to go with. I'm thinking sidewinder titanium is enticing but maybe over-kill. Anyway I'm trying to decide more about dropping 1 or 2 teeth in the back. If I drop 1 tooth in front and 2 in rear I should be a half tooth lower geared. But I'm not sure if I'd be better off going 1/1 then I could get higher rpm's in 3rd and maybe even be able to get in 4th. Any thoughts?
    Running 525
    -Voodoo
    JT Racing on Ebay they sell the Front Sprockets that are original KTM that have been lightened with holes all the way around them...they told me they wouldn't fit the Quad?...they work great OEM fit...you will like the 13T...Tractor in first on the sand...2nd gear lauch with paddles is bad to the bone...you will easily get revved out in third if you are using 20" paddles? and will be close with 21's you can hit 4th and maybe with the torque of the KTM motor you'll pull it OK...

  10. #9
    Moderator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    thanks kiwi, got my first holeshot this weekend from 2 bikes away from the outside end.

    2nd gear
    -1 tooth rear sprocket
    high revs
    drop clutch
    hold on tight and dont let off

    = CMRC ATV Shock Pros Holeshot Award!

    i did cause a 3 rider pileup but hey, they hit me
    2016 Walsh/Elka YFZ450R
    2011 Raptor 125
    2009 450sx
    2008 525XC
    2006LT80

  11. #10
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Addict
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    Gordonsville Va.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bh84 View Post
    thanks kiwi, got my first holeshot this weekend from 2 bikes away from the outside end.

    2nd gear
    -1 tooth rear sprocket
    high revs
    drop clutch
    hold on tight and dont let off

    = CMRC ATV Shock Pros Holeshot Award!

    i did cause a 3 rider pileup but hey, they hit me
    Any tips for a XC dead engine start?
    2x 2008 KTM 450xc
    2010 sponsors: Britts Performance, Rekluse, Motorex, Scott USA, Twin Air, Spider Grips


  12. #11
    Moderator KTMATVHQ Guru
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    leave the bike in neutral on the line, it starts quicker that way, then do the same as i do, ive done one XC holeshot, on a blaster, and i took the holeshot lol
    2016 Walsh/Elka YFZ450R
    2011 Raptor 125
    2009 450sx
    2008 525XC
    2006LT80

  13. #12
    Senior Member Member
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    Cleveland, SC
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    bit old, but i always started in gear. loved to launch off
    450 xc, lotto to pay for all the goodies

  14. #13
    Senior Member Member
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    Far NorCal , CA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailrunner View Post
    Any tips for a XC dead engine start?
    I tried this. Get a stronger battery. One that has more cca. That will help turn over the motor while in gear. This worked for me. Hear is a trick I learned racing Hare scrambles (motorcycle) over here on the west coast. Rev motor to around .25 throttle with the quad in the gear of your choice. While holding the throttle in the .25 position. Kill the engine. But do not release the clutch. Hold in the clutch until the drop of the green flag. Your motor should fire up very quickly. There is no drag on the motor from the transmission. Due to the clutch being held in. Try this out. It has gotten me many hole shots. Good luck. Just don't tell my brother. I always hole shotted him. And to this day, He still doesn't know how I did it. HEHEHEHe
    2011 WORCS #226
    2011 SPONSORS- FINISH LINE MOTOR SPORTS in Anderson, CA* ODI * AXO * Motion Pro* And my Wife Stacey*

  15. #14
    Junior Member Rookie
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    No Matter what practice your starts , I have always started in gear . I prefer 2nd gear no matter what ( dead engine or MX) and dont just dump the clutch learn to let it out smooth . When you have it right you will pick the front end up 2-3 inches and you have one less shift than everyone that starts in first. They didnt call me Holeshot for nothing .

  16. #15
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Guru
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    Ok here's a way to leave the hole better. Get a vortex. You can get it set up so it has Rpm curves different by 500 you drop clutch and will leave in the rpm but once you drop clutch all the way out it will go to max rpm curve. So basically you can adjust your start by 500 helping you not spin tires out of the hole, would adjust it to the type of dirt your on. but goin to max power once clutch is open. It's pretty trick but vortex is 500 and to get a program for that is 100. You hook up a wire to the clutch so it know when to switch to max power.
    637
    8/10 cam or stage 6 depends on who you but it from
    plus 1 head
    slingshot lock up
    fci intake, 43.5 carb
    plus 8 swingarm
    ktmbill exhaust
    JJ&a play axle
    high flow water pump
    direct drive spindle mounts (thanks nmachine)


    http://s1107.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=drag.jpg

  17. #16
    Junior Member Rookie
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    Try dropping down one tooth on the back sprocket. It should help with your starts as well as extending each gear just a small amount. You may really like the outcome of shifting less. Good luck!


 

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