2009 525XC Not firing consistently or at all
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Thread: 2009 525XC Not firing consistently or at all

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb 2009 525XC Not firing consistently or at all

    Hey fellows, I purchased a used 2009 525XC , ive had 2 Outlaw 525's w/o issue, so I wanted to up my game. This quad wasn't the best taking care of by its looks. I have reviewed a ton of post here, thumper and the web...

    The issue:
    Will not fire most of the time.

    What ive done,purchased and checked;

    Brand new Lithium battery (Battery Tender BTL14A240C - has 240 Cold Cranking Amps)
    New Iridium spark plug
    New NGK plug cap

    Tested starter (removed from engine to insure it spins fast and free) was thinking about getting the 410watt version

    Had valves adjusted by shop, they were very tight

    The clutch sensor was already bypassed and I can fire w/o pulling the lever in

    I checked TPS per service manual, was fine

    Completely disassembled carb and clean all orifices , jets , inside and out, replaced all vent hoses

    I had replaced the starter/battery/ground wires with good expensive 4guage wire, copper lugs on the hot sides and normal on the ground side. All grounds have been sanded and all connections have the electric grease. All fuses have been replaced with new ones.

    Starter relay was tested, jumped and is ok

    Kill switch tether is attached and works
    Float height set, was wrong because it would spill gas out of carb when gas was turned on.
    *****

    So when I play with the idle screw , sometimes, I can get it to start/fire, and it will idle just fine , go for ride and its ok until I shut it down. But if I try to start it immediately after that, it just tries to crank. I keep my battery charger on it while I do this, so its cranks and cranks and cranks, but no luck. I do notice that when I pull the choke lever out, it has a harder time trying to crank.
    This has been going on for 3 weeks, running out of options here, I am technically inclined, have a bunch of tools, always done my own work on bikes and quads, but by no means am I a mechanic or claim to be.

    I seen the issue with the decompression , but if mine starts sometimes and runs, dont think thats it, dunno.....

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Senior Member KTMATVHQ Addict
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    Have you checked for good spark when the plug was out? That will tell you if it is ignition or fuel related. If you can get it to fire by messing with the idle screw then my first thought is there is not enough play in the throttle cable. These are picky about that. I'd try to put a little extra slack in the cable and see if it will start and gradually turn up the idle screw a reasonable amount until it does.

    If your spark is intermittent there has been some reports on here of the pulse coil going bad.
    rc51ner likes this.
    Mine:
    2009 505 SX
    2008 525 XC-modded for mx (currently 450 cylinder)
    2008 450SX-F two wheeler-complete with thumb throttle
    Dad's:
    2009 450 SX
    2008 540 XC

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  3. #3
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    Have you done all the electrical tests in the service manual? I've had the same issues, came on suddenly without much warning, stripped the carb a few times, new battery, clean terminals, rinse repeat.

    Traced it back to the primary coil in the end.... I'm back in UAE next week, got a coil from UK to fit. See how it goes.....


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  5. #4
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    Ok guys, first off, thanks for replying so quickly. So I went to the manual and did the ignition test with multimeter, all checked out. What I decided to do was take my ignition coil from my 2016 KTM 300xcw Six Days (same part #) , including plug cap and all, I compared the readings, all same except for plug cap, which on the quad was at 4.64 and XCW was 5.06, no biggee i think. So I installed it, also put a brand new plug in there, so at first it just cranked, i messed with the idle, no luck, so next I gave some slack to the throttle cable with the round silver adjuster , about 2 turns, then it fired right up !!!!, shut it off, tried again , fired up,waited 10 minutes, fired again,,, it still seems to have a bit of a time to fire, i.e , press button, tries to turn engine, press again, tries , then third cranks and fires. Im hoping the 410 watt start will resolve that. I may put back on the old coil,cap and plug to see if it was solely the throttle cable free play and report back.

    But finally , some success in this project, thanks again , Im hoping Im passed this electric drama so I can get some bits and pieces !!

    Appreciate the input fellows !!!!!!
    Miner likes this.

  6. #5
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    Well back to square 1 !! Wont fire , just cranks. So after my above success, the first thing i wanted to do was change the fluids, the previous owner had a dyi solution for a stripped oil drain plug, so to get a better look at it, i put the quad up on its rear grab bar, resolved the oil plug issue, put it back down, bike was up on its rear for about 15 minutes. Tried to start, not go, just cranks. Nothing else was touched. So days/hours later I decided to check/adj TPS. carb slide @ stock 1mm opening , Current setting = Multimeter set to 20k readings were (blue/black 5.10) and ( yellow/black 20k was .55 / 2k was .556). So reading the manual,I multiplied Blue reading of 5.10 times 0.17 = .867

    I clipped MM onto yellow/black , loosen torx screw on TPS , turned reading from .556 to as close to .867 I could get, like .860. Checked Blue/Black still at 5.10 ( how that works I have no clue)

    All that still no luck.

    No fire

    Opened up thumb throttle, I see the little micro switch inside, it clicks when the thumb lever hits it, so i loosen cable there away from it and the adjuster cable at the carb.

    No Fire.

    Any more thoughts guys, trying my hardest not to take it to the dealer, I can imagine they will spend 10 hours redoing what i have done to come back and say not resolved and still charge me....

    Thanks in advanced...

  7. #6
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    Mine turned out to be:

    - Primary coil = dead

    - Carb boot = split quite badly on outlet side connection to head

    - Sparkplug = incorrectly gapped

    We've had issues with starting the bike since we got it, there was even a start procedure to follow given by the previous owner. I suspect most of it was the carb boot being split.... I came across it accidentally as I took it off from carb instead of the head.



    Valve clearances ok?


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  8. #7
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    Thanks, my boot is ok, had valves adjusted prior, I'm using a coil from my other bike which works, I double check the plug gap, thanks for the suggestions. .

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  9. #8
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    Got it resolved, I had turned up the tps per the manual, was at 830ish, turned down to 541, fired no problem, rough idle, but at least I'm past that part now, I can work on my air/fuel, thanks guys for your assistance !!!!

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    Miner likes this.

  10. #9
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    Ok my friends, Im back to square one.... sighh So from the above, I got it starting, took it out to WVA over the weekend, did great. got it home, and it started fine in the garage.

    So I made note of the TPS (541), throttle cable setting ( I have the TORS mod, so shouldn't matter right??).

    Took the carb off to install a Tusk brand extended Air/fuel screw and also put new carb hoses on it (longer ones).

    Put it all together, cranks, cranks, cranks, did not fire. Checked plug against the engine in the dark, wasnt getting any spark. For the sake of it, I put a new spark in, checked gap, same thing.

    the idle screw is allllll of the way down (1 mm opening), the cable is as lose as it can possibly be, so no tension on cable/slide at all. So I reset the TPS , by, remove screw, remove TPS, blew in some air, reinstalled, set it at .54 @ 20K ( 543 @ 2 2K) with multimeter.

    Still it cranks and cranks, battery stays on tender, its got plenty of cca (260 cca), plus my starter is the new 410watt version, so it cranks hard and fast, but no fire at all.

    driving me nuts.....

    Whats left ? It started all weekend, started right before I removed carb, the coil is fine.... very frustrating

    Is there any to completely bypass the TPS ?

    thanks in advance

  11. #10
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    Coil definitely fine? Carb boot definitely not split?

    The split carb boot and hard starting eventually killed my coil....


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  12. #11
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    Hey thanks for responding, coil was good before, I have one on my dirt bike I can swap to verify, I checked carb boot, it's the new style and it's good to go.

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  13. #12
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    So I put a coil and correctly gaped plug on the bike still no spark I put a spark plug tester on the other bike with the same coil got a light put it on the quad no light so somewhere still I am not getting spark. So my issue isn't hard starting it's no spark the only other thing need to check is I have the tors mod relay the weatherproof kind I can't remember if whether or not you should hear it click when you turn the key and switch on because I don't hear it click when I turn the key in the switch on

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  14. #13
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    What's the TORS mod?


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  15. #14
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    Throttle over ride sensor, search TORS, it's a small relay to bypass the thumb throttle switch

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  16. #15
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    As to not leave a thread unclosed I got it resolved today not sure , I think the things possessed so I put the old ignition coil in in a fresh iridium plug hit start I heard it stumble turn up idle up ever so slightly hit it again it tried to start kept turning the idle clockwise slightly finally started crazy machine. I tested it without my tors mod using the old thumb throttle switch and it work both ways so I know it wasn't my tors mod that was acting up FYI my TPS is set at 605

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  17. #16
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    Valve clearances?


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  18. #17
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    I think your TPS is set to high. Once you get it to idle good adjust your TPS down to .54. These things are sensitive so you may have to use the throttle cable adjustment to fine tune the numbers.
    08 525xc ≡ 12.5:1 570 bbk, +1 valves, Crower Cam, Houser Bounce Nerfs, Razr 2 rears, Razr fronts, Pro Armor Dominator Bumper, Scotts Steering Damper, Mino Water Pump, FCI intake, KTMBill Skid Plate, FastRanchero 41mm Carb


 

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