What happens when you have no oil pump!!!

[sticko2]

Recently a friend of mine had his chain come off when he was at the track. He loaded his bike back onto his pick-up and headed home. When he got home he sorted the chain and washed the bike and put it away. What he didn't realise was when his chain came off it contacted his oil pump cover which is below the sprocket on the sx. The impact left a small indentation on the inside of the cover which seized the pump inside. The pump shaft and drive pin then shattered the pump leaving just a load of splintered plastic inside the housing. Unaware of this he took the bike out some days later and managed 1/2 a steady lap before hearing a squeal from the bike and it shutting off. Here are pics of the damage#]The head and cams are currently with an engine builder who thinks he can repair them. i will make sure and get pics of the repair work before we re-assemble. KTM wanted around $2k to fix and if the fix goes ahead as planned we should be able to have done it for under $300. Other than the repair to the head the bike needs oil pumps and the cover and some gaskets. we'll keep our fingers crossed as this could be a major bullet that has been dodged. If anyone else has a chain come off, please check your oil pump cover meticulously.

[jar944]

I would junk the cam, & I scrapped my head that looked like that. Check the followers for the DLC coating and replace if worn off. (The PO took this one for a swim.)




Different motor I picked up where the PO was a idiot

[sticko2]

i have an intake cam that i will give him if need be. what caused your oil pump to fail?

[mickley.28]

I have a motor I just bought that looks exactly the same as yours.... not sure what happened though because the oil pumps looked great. The head and cams seized which caused a valve to hit the piston.

I dont see how they are going to fix your head and cams but if they do let me know because I'd like to have my head/cams fixed so i don't have to buy new ones.

The weird thing with my motor was the oil pumps looked fine and the clutch was busted... the inner hub was scared where somehow a steel plate broke and the outer basket was also scared. I think the clutch disk might of broke first and the metal shavings from it rubbing on the inner hub and basket got into the oil ports blocking them off causing loss of oil to top end and the head/cams/piston damage. Does my theory sound crazy or anyone have any other ideas....could the clutch plate have broke because no oil pressure? How could it lose oil pressure if pumps all look good?

[sticko2]

Maybe the pickup screen got blocked which would cause a lack of flow to the suction pumps (and consequently the pressure pump) which would result in a build up of heat over time causing clutch plates to warp and break. Just another theory. Your one is also possible as those jets in the head are very small and only a very fine amount of debrit could block them. The guy thinks he can machine an insert to go in the cam journal to make up the room he will machine out. I have not spoken to him direct so don't know all the details. I will however get as much info as possible if it does work as I know it will be use to some/many people.

[kiwi-craig]

seen a ktm break a steel in the clutch pack, this then machines fibers off the frictions big time which clogged the filter and then seized the cam......... one more reason to upgrade the clutch to the Honda steels and frictions.

fit the factory billet chain guide............

I highly doubt that heads savable.......... Bill at HT racing has reclaimed a number though and worth talking with for those in the US

[mickley.28]

seen a ktm break a steel in the clutch pack, this then machines fibers off the frictions big time which clogged the filter and then seized the cam......... one more reason to upgrade the clutch to the Honda steels and frictions.

fit the factory billet chain guide............

I highly doubt that heads savable.......... Bill at HT racing has reclaimed a number though and worth talking with for those in the US

I'd say your right on the filter getting clogged because the filter looked like it was collapsing (possible from the suction pumps pulling such a hard vacuum on it). THANKS...I feel better about putting this back together now that i know what happened

[kiwi-craig]

also be carefull when reassembling the pumps, small bevel on one side of the rotor, get it the wrong way around and they bind like hell in the case....... I really hate these plastic pumps........ Pumps in backwards can result in the sheared centers like in the picture.

KTm has also beefed pump the pumps, there is an updated part.

the squashed filter was due to blockage with clutch gunk to the point that the pressure pump squashed it due to flow restriction.

If you get any clutch slip with the stock KTm fibers they shed wads of fibre........ I've seen a small hand full in mine, like a wad of cotton wool in the sump !!!! bloody lucky, thats when I threw the stock clutch setup away.....

[andrew75]

any pics or part numbers on the updated oil pumps

[mickley.28]

Which way does that small bevel go.... the manual doesn't say which way it just says make sure you get it right...lol. I think all the bevels go towards the center of the motor?

[harry_ss]

Any update on this? Do you know the part number for the updated oil pump rotors?

[sticko2]

The original oil pressure pumps in the 07/08 450/505 sxf dirtbikes were part number 77338207000. Then in 2009 when the quads came out the oil pumps were updated to part number 77338207100 this is for dirtbikes and ATVs. As far as I can see no other pump is available, I have tried to search for 77338207200 but it does not exist. It may be the case that early 09 sx models came with the old pump but that is just a guess on my behalf.

[sticko2]

Head is back and fixed. As you can see in the pics he has fabricated shells to go in where the damage is and they are held in with what looks like brass dowels. Will get it cleaned up, the valves put back in and get it tested this week. I think he has made a beautiful job of it. Here are some pics.

[505SXKILL]

good job !!! and how much ?

[andrew75]

who completed the repair job on the head ?

[mickley.28]

I have a head that looks similar to yours....not quite as bad but I'd like to know who fixed it for you and how much it cost so I can get my head fixed.

[kiwi-craig]

bloody awesome job there Sticko ! Main thing is keeping the shells from moving so the dowels are a sharp idea.

One of the engine builders is grooving the head / cap journal to help with oil flow around the cam on the 2 wheelers.

It's been talked about adding automotive type bearing shells over on KTM talk, would be a similar setup to this.

NICE JOB

[sticko2]

The work was done by an old rally car engine builder in his garden shed, who lives near to us. He has done a stellar job of it. I suppose the proof will b in the pudding so to say. The work cost £160 (around $250) we can ask him about doing others if you guys wish. Only problem would be shipping them over here to Scotland.

[elite505sx]

Cant wait to get it on my bike and try it out!!fingers crossed.

[amquadracing]

The work was done by an old rally car engine builder in his garden shed, who lives near to us. He has done a stellar job of it. I suppose the proof will b in the pudding so to say. The work cost £160 (around $250) we can ask him about doing others if you guys wish. Only problem would be shipping them over here to Scotland.

Looks a good job!!! Them sort off guys ate the best for a job like that, Bit like the guy that repaired my busted cases for £30!!!!!